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Post by randomone on Feb 23, 2016 16:52:38 GMT -6
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Optimisn
Moderator
The Voice of Reason
Posts: 33,718 
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Post by Optimisn on Feb 23, 2016 17:13:43 GMT -6
I give it an A for effort. You know NOBODY is trying to watch or listen to Byron Saxton.
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Post by Back To December KS on Feb 23, 2016 17:34:54 GMT -6
I just wanted to announce that I'm 100% #TeamReigns. Fans are out of control.
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Post by Danny Busch on Feb 23, 2016 17:44:26 GMT -6
What???
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Post by Back To December KS on Feb 23, 2016 17:49:52 GMT -6
You heard me.
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Post by Danny Busch on Feb 23, 2016 17:51:25 GMT -6
Don't be that guy. Ridiculous.
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Post by Danny Busch on Feb 23, 2016 18:15:49 GMT -6
oh good god....reigns has tweeted out pictures of his post-op nose after having it shattered last night. Ridiculous. Now they will keep him off RAW to avoid the booing his character deserves.
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Post by Positivity Peeps on Feb 23, 2016 18:16:21 GMT -6
I just wanted to announce that I'm 100% #TeamReigns. Fans are out of control. Viva la #reVolution! |
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Post by Back To December KS on Feb 23, 2016 19:44:32 GMT -6
Don't be that guy. Ridiculous. It's not ridiculous. Aside from the fact that everybody hates everything these days, and besides what I mentioned earlier in whatever thread about Reigns not being half as bad as everybody makes him out to be, maybe Vince is just sick of listening to us. We wanted Benoit as champion, he gave us Benoit as champion and Benoit killed his family. We wanted Eddie as champion, he gave us Eddie as champion and Eddie OD'd. We wanted Punk as champion, he gave us Punk as champion (for like the longest run in the past 25 years) and Punk left in the middle of a Mania build, bad mouthed the company at every turn, got sued/sued the company, and is just a huge dickwad. We wanted Bryan as champion, he gave us Bryan as champion, and then Bryan's injuries derailed several pushes and storylines as well as kind of ruined it for others like...........Reigns for instance. On the flip side of that, guys that Vince pretty much "grew" have been pretty damn reliable all things considered. Taker Cena Brock Orton maybe you throw Angle, Rock in there too? |
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Post by Danny Busch on Feb 23, 2016 20:05:51 GMT -6
He seems like a fine guy and while he is pretty much awful on the mic still he is ok in the ring despite some awful (IMO) finishers. The problem is he does not resonate with the crowd or fanbase as a face and the harder they try (and have they ever tried) it gets worse and worse. You have a smoking hot heel with him if you turn him....a true heel and not one that gets cheers that is on the main event level. If you keep forcing him to be the top face of the company then you are screwing up the polarity of his opponents. I don't think there is anyone that the fanbase thinks has to be champion over him. He can be a heel champion right now.
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Post by Positivity Peeps on Feb 23, 2016 20:26:01 GMT -6
Don't be that guy. Ridiculous. It's not ridiculous. Aside from the fact that everybody hates everything these days, and besides what I mentioned earlier in whatever thread about Reigns not being half as bad as everybody makes him out to be, maybe Vince is just sick of listening to us. We wanted Benoit as champion, he gave us Benoit as champion and Benoit killed his family. We wanted Eddie as champion, he gave us Eddie as champion and Eddie OD'd. We wanted Punk as champion, he gave us Punk as champion (for like the longest run in the past 25 years) and Punk left in the middle of a Mania build, bad mouthed the company at every turn, got sued/sued the company, and is just a huge dickwad. We wanted Bryan as champion, he gave us Bryan as champion, and then Bryan's injuries derailed several pushes and storylines as well as kind of ruined it for others like...........Reigns for instance. On the flip side of that, guys that Vince pretty much "grew" have been pretty damn reliable all things considered. Taker Cena Brock Orton maybe you throw Angle, Rock in there too? Benoit point is idiotic and frankly beneath you. Eddie died of heart issues, which was probably exacerbated by the previous drug use. Punk was as over as any guy in the last 20 years and was derailed by....Vince and Hunter. He is a moody douche though. Bryan unfortunately got hurt but remains more over than nearly everyone but Cena. Do better. |
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Post by Positivity Peeps on Feb 23, 2016 20:32:55 GMT -6
On the flip side, Taker was a great idea but the guy made that character what it is. Not Vince.
Cena was beloved by most fans from his arrival through his Doctor of Thuganomics phase and into the Spinner Belt. Then people just got tired of him. It happens to everyone. It happened to Hogan when he was around too long.
Orton was booked well to get over at the beginning, but he's nothing special.
Brock is a once-in-a-lifetime guy who again was booked strong.
Rock got himself over when he abandoned Vince's vision of the over-the-top babyface.
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Post by Back To December KS on Feb 23, 2016 20:35:13 GMT -6
I thought my post was great.
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Post by Positivity Peeps on Feb 23, 2016 20:38:02 GMT -6
I thought my post was great. Not surprising. |
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Post by Danny Busch on Feb 23, 2016 20:48:08 GMT -6
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Post by Back To December KS on Feb 23, 2016 20:50:06 GMT -6
I'm just saying that I can see the logic with Reigns to a point. I don't really care for the booking per se but I can somewhat see the overall logic.
I mean even though they were doing the Reigns stuff, they were in fact in actuality giving us Rollins until he got hurt. So that was great, right? Rollins? Fuck yeah it was great. (Well not the chickenshit heel booking but at least we got Rollins) hell, he'd maybe still be champ because I don't doubt that maybe Vince would've wanted to break Punk's record.
Ok so what did we get. Sheamus I guess? Well we hate Sheamus. So they fixed that quick enough.
They bring back Del Rio. Maybe he'd be a viable guy? No way we hate him too.
I'm gonna err on the side of Vince for now in figuring that he knew of Bryan's serious injuries and therefore he was no longer an option.
He had given us Brock as champ for awhile there but with only 1 belt and Brock not being a fighting champion makes him far from an ideal choice.
So really over the past couple of years what's your choices as to whom to groom push? Maybe the following is all I can come up with:
Ziggler
Bray
Ambrose
Reigns
Rusev
Cesaro
Rollins
Cena
That's about all I can think of.
Ziggler gives you a good match. Sucks on the mic and on Twitter. And he's just fucking weird.
Bray seems like the total package except for looks. I wonder if there's some backstage stuff we don't know about him because I don't understand the lack of push.
Ambrose would be a phenomenal choice. But he does hate people in real life so if you're looking for a face, a Make a Wish guy and all that, not sure he fits that bill.
Reigns - somewhat questionable in the ring but seems to come up big at PPV's and important matches. Sucks on the mic for the most part with his force fed lines but is great in other instances like that sit down snowstorm interview. Looks like a god.
Rusev - him with Lana seemed like a no brainer to me. Could've easily carried the strap in my estimation.
Cesaro - great in the ring, brutal on the stick.
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Optimisn
Moderator
The Voice of Reason
Posts: 33,718
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Post by Optimisn on Feb 23, 2016 20:50:09 GMT -6
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Post by Danny Busch on Feb 23, 2016 20:54:10 GMT -6
Ambrose hates people?
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Post by Positivity Peeps on Feb 23, 2016 20:54:51 GMT -6
I'm just saying that I can see the logic with Reigns to a point. I don't really care for the booking per se but I can somewhat see the overall logic. I mean even though they were doing the Reigns stuff, they were in fact in actuality giving us Rollins until he got hurt. So that was great, right? Rollins? Fuck yeah it was great. (Well not the chickenshit heel booking but at least we got Rollins) hell, he'd maybe still be champ because I don't doubt that maybe Vince would've wanted to break Punk's record. Ok so what did we get. Sheamus I guess? Well we hate Sheamus. So they fixed that quick enough. They bring back Del Rio. Maybe he'd be a viable guy? No way we hate him too. I'm gonna err on the side of Vince for now in figuring that he knew of Bryan's serious injuries and therefore he was no longer an option. He had given us Brock as champ for awhile there but with only 1 belt and Brock not being a fighting champion makes him far from an ideal choice. So really over the past couple of years what's your choices as to whom to groom push? Maybe the following is all I can come up with: Ziggler Bray Ambrose Reigns Rusev Cesaro Rollins Cena That's about all I can think of. Ziggler gives you a good match. Sucks on the mic and on Twitter. And he's just fucking weird. Bray seems like the total package except for looks. I wonder if there's some backstage stuff we don't know about him because I don't understand the lack of push. Ambrose would be a phenomenal choice. But he does hate people in real life so if you're looking for a face, a Make a Wish guy and all that, not sure he fits that bill. Reigns - somewhat questionable in the ring but seems to come up big at PPV's and important matches. Sucks on the mic for the most part with his force fed lines but is great in other instances like that sit down snowstorm interview. Looks like a god. Rusev - him with Lana seemed like a no brainer to me. Could've easily carried the strap in my estimation. Cesaro - great in the ring, brutal on the stick. I don't mind Reigns. I mind the Cena-esque way he's presented. |
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Post by Back To December KS on Feb 23, 2016 20:56:57 GMT -6
I've also got to the point in general where I'm just trying to actually enjoy things that I enjoy. Whether it be wrestling, the Bucks, the Brewers, Packers, etc....
Now don't get me wrong. I still hate the Uso's entrance. I hate most everything about Ryback. I hate the What? chant. I hate people behind the commentators making fools of themselves. I hate the commentary teams except for Mauro and NXT's. And there's a good couple hundred other things I don't like either but in general I'm just trying to be (sort of) a gentler, kindler, mellower Good ol' KS.
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Post by Back To December KS on Feb 23, 2016 20:57:21 GMT -6
Oh gosh yes. Only slightly less than Brock. |
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Post by Back To December KS on Feb 23, 2016 21:50:25 GMT -6
Don't get me wrong in all of that though. I haven't loved the booking of Reigns and he would indeed be better as a heel.
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Post by Back To December KS on Feb 23, 2016 22:29:56 GMT -6
Here's an interesting question. Let's say you're Vince McMahon from 2 twoooooooooooooooooooooooo years ago. You have to pick your long term John Cena replacement. Given the roster you had at the time who would YOU have gone all in on?
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Post by Positivity Peeps on Feb 23, 2016 22:47:18 GMT -6
2 years ago?
Reigns.
But I also would've had him mimic the Rock (like they're doing in all other aspects of Reigns' booking) and had him turn on the fans and Bryan last year leading into Mania.
Reigns wins the title and is booked as the top heel for the next 6 months with Rollins and Brock chasing him.
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Post by Danny Busch on Feb 23, 2016 22:49:22 GMT -6
I don't think you can replace Cena while Cena is still around or even still fresh in the minds of the fanbase. You have to have the monster heel in place for a while and you need a void from your top face for a while to allow someone to organically evolve into the role.
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Post by Danny Busch on Feb 23, 2016 22:53:32 GMT -6
Isn't this always going to be an issue as long as most of the heels are "cool" heels?
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Post by Positivity Peeps on Feb 23, 2016 23:01:27 GMT -6
Isn't this always going to be an issue as long as most of the heels are "cool" heels? Yes. |
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Post by randomone on Feb 24, 2016 8:33:25 GMT -6
Reigns has been groomed to be "the guy" since The Shield was together. It's not Roman himself I think the fans have a problem with, it's the forcing him down the fans throats I feel is the problem. Case & point....
-Gets hurt with a hernia in 2014, yet wins Superstar of the Year over guys like Daniel Bryan, John Cena, Seth Rollins, Dean Ambrose, Orton, etc. That didn't sit well with the fans, because, while WWE claims to have legit voting, everyone knew that wasn't legit at all.
-Wins the 2015 Rumble and the crowd shits all over it. Eliminating Bryan half way through the match was a terrible idea (since you saw what happened when he wasn't in the year prior), so Reigns was set up to get the shit booed out of him.
-How do you get the fans to cheer for Reigns? By beating their beloved Daniel Bryan for a shot at Mania. WRONG! What'd they expect to happen? Of course fans booed.
-That sticks with fans & once they boo, they'll boo until you give them a reason to cheer. So he wins the title AGAINST Ambrose (massive fan favorite), so of course they boo.
-He beat Sheamus for the title, which, they cheered because it had egg on Vince McMahon's face, as he's a massive heel.
-Loses the title less than a month later in the Rumble, goes on to win a title shot at Mania by beating, again, DEAN AMBROSE (massive fan favorite).
If they want Roman Reigns over as a face, then maybe they should STOP HAVING HIM BEAT ALL YOUR TOP BABYFACES TO GET THERE!!!! The fuck do you want the fans to do? Oh he beat Daniel Bryan & Dean Ambrose, HOORAY!!!! That's never going to happen. You beat the bad guys, you cheer, you beat the good guys, you boo. When you have stronger babyfaces than you do heels, this is the problem you run into. |
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Post by Back To December KS on Feb 24, 2016 12:31:43 GMT -6
The fans still suck though. Yeah they're mostly booing creative or whatever but they're invariably booing Reigns as well. It's just not his fault. At all.
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Post by Back To December KS on Feb 24, 2016 13:09:35 GMT -6
If/when they turn Reigns heel they wouldn't still have him enter through the crowd, right?
Just a weird thing I thought of for no reason.
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