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Post by randomone on Mar 28, 2016 10:51:17 GMT -6
8. Razor Ramon vs Shawn Michaels (WM10) We now come to the Wrestlemania coming out party for one of the best ever, as many have said this was pretty much Shawn Michaels having a match with a ladder. I sort of think that’s a slap in the face to Scott Hall, who, despite not executing any major high impact moves with the ladder, gets totally overlooked. As the heel, Shawn had to be the aggressor & use the ladder as a weapon more than Razor. Of course The Bad Guy would get in his shots (slingshot into the ladder, shoving Shawn off the top, the hiptoss off the ladder, etc), but it was Shawn's offense that was more memorable, because at the time, it was unlike anything the WWF fans had seen. Splashes from the top of the ladder, just picking it up & throwing it down onto the back of Razor, even backdropping him from the ring to the concrete floor was a pretty hard fall. Sure, Shawn bumped around like he was Curt Hennig in his prime, but Razor took the majority of the offense until he needed to build his comeback. This feud was built perfectly with Shawn never losing the title, Razor winning the battle royal (and beating Rick Martel) & Shawn coming back with the fake title. I know this wasn’t the 1st ladder match in WWF history, as Shawn & Bret had a pretty darn entertaining one that I saw on Coliseum Video (Smack'em Whack'em, man I miss those videos), but this is the one that got people to notice it for sure. This wasn't the carnage, brutal ladder match we'd grow accustomed to over time, instead this was a match that was pretty much brand new territory for the WWF. While Vince was against the violence, this wasn’t a violent match, more of an intense feud coming to ahead. Shawn getting so close to the titles, Razor shoving him off, getting Shawn tangled in the ropes, allowing Razor to climb the ladder slowly & grab both titles, just as Shawn makes a last ditch effort, gets himself free, dives, but is too late. That sentence right there is storytelling at its finest. Take nothing away from Razor Ramon, he played a very key part in this match & deserves a tremendous amount of credit, his facial expressions after each ladder shot were tremendous. However, Shawn Michaels, the way he bumped around, like I said before, was incredible. Every shot Razor gave him, it seemed like Shawn spit high in the air, so you could really believe the intensity behind every punch thrown on that night in Madison Square Garden. The Heartbreak Kid showed the world that he was the guy & subsequently would compete in the World title match 3 of the next 4 years to follow. While many knew already Shawn would be a massive superstar, without this night as the catalyst, I’m not sure is Shawn achieves the success he did.
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Post by randomone on Mar 29, 2016 11:29:08 GMT -6
7. Edge & Christian vs The Hardys vs The Dudleys (WM17) I grew up in the absolute best time to be a wrestling fan. The Attitude Era happened smack when I was in 6th grade through sophomore year in high school. So whenever Edge, Christian, The Hardys & Dudleys wrestled in 99 through 2001, my mind was blown with how insane these TLC/Ladder/Table matches would end up. While I absolutely could see the argument that I slightly overrated this match, I think it has stuck with me for so long (and still does) because of how intense & insane it was. We had seen a lot of these spots before, but for some reason it felt like, because it was Wrestlemania, shit got taken up a notch. Not to mention Rhyno came in, beat the hell out of people, Lita came in, took her shirt off, Spike came in & proceeded to get waffled with a chair by Lita…..who, did I mention, took her shirt off?!?!? (Paul Heyman on commentary pleading to "take it all off!!" was hilarious) Sure she took a rad 3D by the Dudleys for doing such an awesome thing, but the point of all that is that even the run ins were great! Not sure I like Edge & Christian winning yet again though, as they had now won at Mania 16, Summerslam & now here as well, but with everything that happened in this match, it’s strange that the only complaint I have was the winner. Regardless, when talking about these matches to this day, people really don’t talk about the winners, they talk about ALL 6 guys, which is good, however it still kinda bugs me. I digress; the tag division from late 2000-early 2001 was pretty jumbled, despite having some good tag teams. Teams like Undertaker & The Rock won the titles randomly, then you had the Right To Censor have a month long run, it just seemed odd booking. So when the opportunity presented itself, going back to the well for what would essentially be the 3rd time, was pretty much welcomed by people as they knew it was a guarantee these 3 teams would deliver. So where to really begin, should I list all the spots? It would take forever because that’s what this match was, a spot fest with emotion. Every bump these guys took made the crowd wince, but anticipate the next. Every chair shot or table broken would lead to an even bigger spot. You can only do so many spots, eventually there has to be a winner, but in this case, every major spot would lead to another & another. From Jeff hitting a Swanton onto Rhyno & Spike from the super ladder to the floor, to Jeff tightrope walking (almost worked) the ladders, from Edge hitting the GREATEST SPEAR EVER on Jeff from the super ladder, to finally Matt & Bubba crashing through 4 tables from the ring to the floor. I can watch that spear on a loop for at least 100 times. These 6 men put their bodies on the line yet again & like I said in their WrestleMania 2000 match, this really set a new standard for these type of matches. These 6 guys (1 of them is already) better be in the Hall of Fame, as, in my opinion, this is the greatest tag team contest in the history of Wrestlemania.
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Post by randomone on Mar 30, 2016 11:35:45 GMT -6
6. Ricky Steamboat vs Randy Savage (WM3) The fact that this match took place 28 years ago & is still talked about by wrestling fans to this day in such high regard, is a testament to not just the wrestlers, but the quality of the match they put on. This wasn’t a marathon, this wasn’t a feud based on bloodshed, it was based on two dudes going out with about 15 minutes & put on an all time classic. Both men cut brief, but powerful promos prior to the match, which built even more anticipation. Steamboat got worked over for a majority of the match as, aside from some offense here & there (including some of the best arm drags I've ever seen), the first 10 minutes was pretty much all Savage & it gave them time to build the fans into really getting behind Steamboat as he fought his way back & had some of the most impressive pinfall attempts in succession I’ve ever seen. Randy Savage had a reputation of being a detail freak, mapping out his matches from moment to moment, then would go over it. I heard in a Steamboat interview that they took about a month to plan this & at times Savage would ask him “spot number 47?” then Steamboat would say “arm-drag”. That’s amazing by both men that they have the memorization ability to do such a thing. I can’t remember what I had for lunch 4 days ago; meanwhile these guys can map out a match like this & are able to just name the spot! Only thing I could’ve done without, but in no way took away from the excitement of this match, was the involvement of George Steele, who I never really got into as a character. He was infatuated with Elizabeth, got it, but didn’t he & Savage’s feud end the previous year? Why on earth did Steamboat need him in his corner? It’s not like Elizabeth got involved. Anyways that’s my small complaint, because Steele only got involved in the finish which, after a ref bump, saw Savage try to hit Steamboat in the throat with the ring bell, similar to what he did leading up to this match. Steele grabbed the bell away from Savage, got punted in the back of the head for his troubles, only to push Savage off the top to a huge ovation from the crowd. I might not have been a big fan of his, but Animal was over as hell here. Savage stumbles to his feet & Steamboat counters a bodyslam into a rollup just as the ref has recovered for the 3 count. Masterful storytelling in just 15 minutes. It’s a shame these two didn’t have a re-match the next year during the Mania tournament, but it simply wasn’t meant to be. Not sure they would’ve been able to top themselves with this one, which remains one of my all time favorite matches to watch. If you ever want to watch an amazing match that’s not 20-30 minutes long, but still tells one amazing story, I recommend this one, the greatest Intercontinental Title match in Wrestlemania history.
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Post by randomone on Mar 31, 2016 11:09:39 GMT -6
5. Randy Savage vs Ric Flair (WM8) So 1992 was & forever will be my all time favorite year in the WWF. I know it’s a really odd year to pick seeing as not too many monumental things went on & of course, the Attitude Era had more memorable moments, but for some strange reason, I could watch every match that happened in 1992, squash matches and all & still remain entertained. The greatest Rumble of all time, this match, Bret/Bulldog & Warrior/Savage at Summerslam, Bret/HBK at Survivor Series, everything was great. A big reason for my love of this year was that it was my first time as a kid ordering a PPV (Summerslam 92, not a bad way for it all to begin!), I was hooked, I had started watching wrestling in 1991, but this year was when I was locked in as a fan. Enough rambling, onto the awesomeness of this match. The feud going in was obviously originally supposed to be Flair vs Hogan, but it never happened for whatever reason. Some say it's because they didn’t do as big of business as they’d hope for at the house shows, but why the hell would they hold this match off? Just because Sid was popular at the Rumble so they went with Hogan/Sid? Regardless, I’m happy we never got it in WWF, because we wouldn’t have gotten this classic. Randy Savage is my all time favorite wrestler not just because of his character, but also due to his ability to sell in the ring. He got his ass kicked for a good portion of this match, getting his shots in on Flair, who accused Elizabeth of being with him before Savage. The whole doctored photos angle was pretty good for 1992 & Savage was pretty much in a handicap match because Mr. Perfect was getting involved a LOT in this one. If Earl Hebner was a good official, he would’ve DQ’d Flair, but this is Wrestlemania, so shenanigans are allowed to happen. He mugged Savage, threw Flair a foreign object & pulled Savage out of the ring from getting a pin. If Jack Tunney wasn’t such a crook, he should’ve suspended Perfect. Notice I’m defending Savage, why, because like I’ve said 80 times in this thing, he’s my all time favorite. Was the blood necessary for Flair? Probably not, but it did sort of make the match more intense as Flair had worn Savage down until he got smacked with the guard rail & boy was it a good one (Flair & the camera guy weren’t on the same page as you could see plain as day the blade job Naitch was doing). Then here comes Elizabeth, who looked absolutely incredible, but was being restrained by like 6 officials (including a young Shane O’Mac), all of which didn’t really touch her, because that’d drive Savage batshit crazy. She didn’t do much at ringside except look really good, but in the end, Savage blocked a right hand, got a schoolboy & handful of trunks for the 3 count! Flair laid a kiss on Elizabeth after & she smacked the shit out of him as elegantly as only Miss Elizabeth could. Savage sold the knee from the beating & stood tall with Liz by his side. The image was great, the bloody villain retreating while the underdog stood tall. It’s a story that will forever hold a special place to me as, like I said, this is the year this whole thing really started. No matter how much I complain about the product today, I still keep coming back, because I'm a wrestling fan & it's 1992 in the WWF that's to thank. All these years later, it wasn’t Hogan vs Sid I remember fondly from this show, its Savage vs Flair, which was the feud that pretty much defined the WWF in 1992.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 1, 2016 9:31:19 GMT -6
Unless I missed it I'm really worried about a match you are about to put in the top 4.
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Post by randomone on Apr 1, 2016 10:12:12 GMT -6
I'm interested in which one you're talking about. The Top 4 are legit for sure. Might disagree with the order, but all 4 are classics. Let me know which one you're talking about in a PM in case you didn't want to spoil a match people might've forgot about.
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Post by randomone on Apr 1, 2016 11:00:32 GMT -6
4. Kurt Angle vs Shawn Michaels (WM21) So I had this match ranked about 5 spots lower, but after watching it again this past week for the 1st time in close to 7-8 years, my goodness, this was incredible. Whenever Raw & Smackdown did the brand wars, it always seemed forced & not really all that believable. So when Wrestlemania 21 rolled around & both Shawn Michaels and Kurt Angle had a little bit of bad blood stemming from the Royal Rumble, this was the dream match, the best one you could’ve made between rival brands. It’s really hard to imagine that Kurt & HBK hadn’t wrestled up to this point, what followed was a treat for the ages & a match that blew any other match on this pretty damn good Mania card, out of the water. Kurt said he could accomplish everything Shawn did in 4 weeks leading up to Mania, he had a Ladder match against a jobber, submitted Marty Jannetty in a match, even sang Shawn’s theme song with Sensational Sherri with the unforgettable line “I’m just a Sexy Kurt, I’ll make your ankle hurt”. So we get to the match & these two proceed to put on a near 30 minute classic! The mat wrestling to start, the counters, the frustration of Angle that Michaels was getting the best of them, a perfect pace to set as they got going. Then things got cranked up a notch with Angle hitting an Angle Slam against the post, weakening the hip/back of Michaels, until HBK made his comeback, eventually leading, to an incredible springboard crossbody from the ring to the announce table, which set the crowd on fire. Watching this back, I forgot Adam Sandler was sitting ringside & even The Waterboy himself was totally into it (stop making garbage movies Bobby Boucher!) Shawn going for Sweet Chin Music, Angle catching him in the Ankle Lock, Shawn escaping, but getting planted with another Angle Slam, only to KICK OUT! Shawn climbs the top & gets hit with a super Angle Slam, but KICKS OUT! Angle, frustrated beyond belief picks Shawn up, screaming at him to give up, only for HBK to step back & literally shove his boot down Kurt’s throat with Sweet Chin Music! The only downfall in this match was that Kurt didn’t kick out in time, so the referee had to essentially just miss the mat with his hand. Crowd booed that spot, but JR & Lawler covered very well saying fans of HBK were disappointed Angle kicked out. The emotion was incredible & HBK looked for another, but Angle locks in the Ankle Lock, grapevines the leg & for what felt like 2 minutes (at least) Shawn struggles, trying to get to the rope, but simply couldn’t withstand the pain. There was nothing really on the line in this match, other than Kurt questioning himself on whether he was better than HBK, which, on this night, he was. I’d really have to look back at Kurt Angle’s career, but off the top of my head, the only match I might like more in his career would be Lesnar/Angle Ironman match. So I’ll say this is easily in the Top 5, if not Top 3, favorite Kurt Angle match of all time.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 1, 2016 13:16:45 GMT -6
It was Brock Taker at 66. Whew. I forgot about HBK-Angle. Shame on me. Two of my top 5 favorites of all time.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 1, 2016 13:26:08 GMT -6
Kurt Angle being in TNA has deprived us of so many other Wrestlemania moments that should have happened. WM Angle matches we never got:
John Cena The Undertaker Randy Orton (1on1) CM Punk Daniel Bryan Triple H (it never happened and should have at WM 18) Rusev Brock 2
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Post by randomone on Apr 1, 2016 13:44:11 GMT -6
Yeah Angle was someone who had great Mania matches, but you'd expect him to have so much more. The fact that he only main evented 1 Mania is baffling to me. They couldn't say injuries was why either, because whenever Mania rolled around, Kurt was healthy. I mean he competed from Mania 16 through 22.
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Post by randomone on Apr 2, 2016 11:04:05 GMT -6
3. Steve Austin vs The Rock (WM17) The biggest & some would say final match of the Attitude Era, as WCW & ECW were officially bought and out of the picture & this was essentially the WWF’s celebration of being the last major promotion standing, with the biggest stars in the last 4-5 years in the main event. I liked the build for their match from WM15 more (although the Limp Bizkit My Way song was overplayed, it was brilliant when they put it to this video package), but this match, in my honest opinion, blows the other one out of the water. I’ll get to my complaint first about this one though & that’s Earl Hebner. Over time, I’ve gotten more annoyed with Earl in matches, but this one, it was announced that it was NO DISQUALIFICATION so why in the hell was Earl screaming at guys not to run their opponents heads into the ring post, or announce table? Why in the hell was he yelling at them to break a submission once the other guy grabbed the ropes? What was Earl going to do, disqualify them? I know it’s being too picky (and it happens all the time), but still, it’s a big part of the match. Right after Rock stepped back from the 2nd rope after posing during his entrance; Austin immediately took the fight to him. It spilled into the crowd briefly, fought all over the ringside area, they smacked one another with the ring bell, TV monitors, you name it. Then they got in the ring & counter both of their finishers, the crowd was on fire! Jim Ross & Paul Heyman were nothing short of flawless in this match as that played a key factor in the epicness of this one. After around 20 minutes of back & forth action, you had Vinnie Mac come to the ring and what would transpire was visually unbelievable. Stone Cold himself said in interviews that he probably wouldn’t have turned full heel at this show & just gave a Stunner to Vince after & I somewhat agree. The final shot was historic; however the Two Man Power Trip with Triple H & Stone Cold wasn’t really worth it (though who knows what would've happened had Hunter not torn his quad?). Although heel Stone Cold did however bring us all the comedy involving Kurt Angle & Vince, so I don’t know what to believe. It was an unforgettable moment, seeing the devil himself, Vince McMahon, shaking hands with the man who he pretty much tortured for the last 2-3 years, standing over a bloodied & unconscious body of The Rock. After a brutal chair shot to the head, Stone Cold Stunner & 17 (SEVENTEEN!!) different chair shots in succession, Stone Cold Steve Austin was officially champion with the help of Vince McMahon. It was the culmination of a hard couple years as Austin came back from neck surgery, won the Royal Rumble & now regained his title. Jim Ross yelling, pleading for an explanation as to why Austin would align with Vince was a fantastic ending to, what I think is the best Mania in history. This was one of the best matches & stories told for a Mania main event. If you look at my final 2, you’ll see, this is my all time favorite WrestleMania main event match & for good reason.
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Post by randomone on Apr 3, 2016 9:12:03 GMT -6
2. Bret Hart vs Steve Austin (WM13) When I re-watched the matches I decided to rank in the Top 10, one thing was clear from the very beginning, these final 2 matches, were always going to be my final 2. I said at the beginning of this list (what seemed like a year ago to be honest) that what I was ranking these matches on was quality of the match, emotion, storytelling & overall just how much I loved it. In the case of this match, this had all those qualities checked off pretty much before the bell sounded. This is my favorite culmination of a feud in Mania history as this put Austin on the map. Yes, the promo post King of the Ring got the ball rolling in terms of Austin 3:16, but this feud showed that Austin could hang with the big guns. There’s a distinct difference between feuding with Marc Mero & feuding with Bret Hart. The work Austin did during Bret’s time off to build this feud was nothing short of brilliant, as even without Bret on TV, he made people want to see this match. Finally they faced off & Bret won an incredible match at Survivor Series & that ate away at Austin, he couldn’t stand it. He won the Royal Rumble in perfect controversial fashion, leading Bret to start showing his heel whiney tendencies & even though Austin should’ve won a title shot at this Mania, boy am I glad he didn’t. Can you believe that, I’m happy we didn’t get Undertaker vs Steve Austin at Wrestlemania, how crazy is that to think about? Instead what we got was a masterful piece of storytelling, a star making performance & a Mania match that will live on in history as one of the best ever. It set the tone with the glass shattering as Austin made his way to the ring & immediately these two fought all over the arena. Ken Shamrock did a fantastic job in this one, not getting too involved, letting both men fight, but also stepping in when needed. There were no rules except who submits first, as they used the ring bell, choked each other with cable chords, Bret locked in the Figure Four on the post (I may be wrong, but I think it was the 1st time we’ve seen him do that), Austin bled a TON & Bret managed to fight back after getting hit with a Stunner. What I loved so much about this match was that every hold or shot thrown by both men had something behind it. We didn’t get rest holds & if we got submission attempts, it wasn’t just a flimsy armbar or something along those lines. They stuck to the story as Austin locked in the Million Dollar Dream & Bret locked in the Sharpshooter. The visual of Stone Cold screaming in pain with his face covered in blood is one of the greatest visuals in the history of professional wrestling, a visual you wouldn’t be caught dead seeing in today’s product. Austin passed out in a pool of his own blood as Bret finally overcame the guy making his life hell for nearly a year. It was a feud that would continue, but the fans got behind Austin in a major way & never turned back as they booed Bret mercilessly at the end of this match as he went back to attack Austin, only to get flattened by Ken Shamrock. Bret would get flipped off by fans on his way to the back & Austin was cheered like he was a hero. The anti-hero was born on this night & without him leading the charge for the WWF in 97-01, who knows where the WWE would be today? An incredible match, feud, everything you’d want.
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Post by randomone on Apr 3, 2016 9:23:40 GMT -6
1. Undertaker vs Shawn Michaels (WM25) Here we are, the greatest match in WrestleMania history & yes, if you look back at many lists ranking the best Mania matches, this is usually the top spot, but for damn good reason. I should preface this by saying I just re-watched this match again literally right before I typed this out. I’ve seen some unbelievable matches in my 25 years of being a wrestling fan, but this remains not only my favorite WrestleMania match, but my favorite wrestling match period. The build couldn’t have been more perfect, as the born again Christian, Shawn Michaels, trying to end the streak of the Dead Man, The Undertaker. It’s a feud that we hadn’t got since 1998, as neither had really squared off since Shawn’s return and I’m so happy they waited until this moment as this was the flawless match you came to expect from two of the best ever. Whenever put into a big match situation, both guys turned it on & luckily, without any time limitations, went out there & absolutely crushed it. I’ve talked about how this match should’ve gone on last, so I won’t repeat myself, but it’s a no brainer when you have two men the caliber of HBK & Taker, they go on last, not a dumb feud with Trips & Orton, that was supposed to be so hate fueled, that when the bell sounded, they did a friggin lock up! The entrances were phenomenal, Shawn coming from the heavens dressed in all white, Taker rising from the ground decked in all black. It’s one of those times when you wish the entrances would go on longer! Bell sounds & right out the gate HBK takes the fight to Taker, chops aplenty, Thesz press, until Taker catches him & starts throwing Shawn all around the ring. Tables would turn & Shawn worked the legs, which was smart, but Taker fought back & would try a chokeslam, but HBK countered into a Crossface, only to be countered into a side suplex. HBK hits the signature flying forearm, kip up, Taker catches him with another chokeslam attempt, Michaels counters, tries for Sweet Chin Music, but Taker wisely dropped back & baited Shawn into Hell’s Gate! Just typing that sequence was exhausting yet exciting. Shawn knocks Taker to the floor, went for a moonsault, but Taker literally swatted Shawn away like he was a fly! Then comes the spot where Taker literally almost crippled himself. Now, I know that many came down hard on Deuce (from Deuce n’ Domino, who was the fake cameraman) for not being in the right place, however, Taker ‘s knees clipped the top rope & Michaels was the guy who pulled Deuce into position, but they were too far out & Taker didn’t get far enough. So it was just bad circumstances & unfortunately Deuce got the blame, but Taker luckily tucked his chin & came within a millimeter of seriously injuring himself. With the ref down, cameraman down, Shawn down, there was literally no one to check on Taker.
Then comes the false finishes. I know WWE runs this into the ground these days, especially at Mania, but on this night, it was something that needed to be done. Here we go, Taker miraculously got back in the ring, Shawn tried for a superkick, but got caught in a chokeslam for the 1….2….KICK OUT! Taker picks Shawn up & tried for another one, but Shawn stepped back & hit Sweet Chin Music for a 1…2…KICK OUT! Both men up & Taker looks for a Last Ride & the 1…2…KICK OUT! After some more back & forth, Taker tried to send HBK over the top, but Shawn skinned the cat, only to be caught & dropped with a Tombstone for the 1…2…KICK OUT! This is the moment Undertaker’s memorable facial expression happened & it remains something that still gives me goosebumps. The crowd was on fire at this point as Taker looks for another Tombstone, which Shawn countered into a DDT, tries for yet another Sweet Chin Music & hits it for the 1…2…KICK OUT! After both exchange more punches & chops, leaving everything out there, Shawn tried for a moonsault, but Taker caught him & hit the biggest Tombstone for the victory. Some can bitch that it was too many false finishes, to which I say, you’re dead wrong. It took everything & then some to defeat Shawn Michaels; they used every single move in their arsenal. Both could barely stand & it was deafening in the Reliant Stadium. It’s the perfect build up, the perfect storyline, nothing overcomplicated, it all clicked. The line said by Taker leading up to this was “Sometimes it’s hell, trying to get to heaven.” It's cheesy to apply it to this list, but you absolutely could. We’ve been through some absolute brutal Wrestlemania matches (starting with the hell that was Cole vs Lawler), but it all led us to this match (the perfect match between two of the best ever), the greatest in WrestleMania history!
Seriously thank you all for taking time to read this list. Even if you read some of it, that’s good enough for me. I really dug doing this. Thanks to those who tried to get the word out about this beyond this board too. I was going to tweet a bunch about it, but felt that was too Horowitz-esque, patting myself on the back. Like how I wrapped it up with a Barry Horowitz reference? For that & for that alone, I will pat myself on the back. Thanks again for reading, I'm going to go face plant now, I'm tired.
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Optimisn
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Post by Optimisn on Apr 3, 2016 10:01:11 GMT -6
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Post by Positivity Peeps on Apr 3, 2016 10:03:32 GMT -6
Fantastic work fella.
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Post by November KS on Apr 3, 2016 10:51:59 GMT -6
Thank you so much randomone for all the work and passion you poured into this. Just phenomenal.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 3, 2016 14:52:44 GMT -6
I'm disappointed I don't have new content to read starting tomorrow. Awesome job. Fun read.
How about every RAW match ranked?
Haha, in all seriousness how about SummerSlam next?
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Post by randomone on Apr 3, 2016 15:12:39 GMT -6
Are you trying to kill me?!?!? Haha, I am debating doing a Summerslam. Maybe do every match in Summerslam history. It could happen.
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