Optimisn
Moderator
The Voice of Reason
Posts: 33,710 
|
Post by Optimisn on Feb 6, 2016 23:30:02 GMT -6
And I actually think that creative could flourish in this scenario. Vince & Co never stick to or probably even attempt long term booking anymore anyways. Not to mention that even when you love a wrestler you might start getting a little tired of them after 9 months. Totally agree. But you're underestimating the human aspect here. Vince & Co could have an epiphany and not be horrible human beings. What if they get someone super hot for nine months? Are you saying they have to take three months off? Again, I'm on your side overall. But now the guy that's at Stone Cold levels is taking an extra day off per week, as opposed to being out for three months. Now the mid-card guy, let's say Ziggler, just sits for three months for preservation. It doesn't work. The WWE absolutely needs to move to a talent schedule similar to those they desperately want to be. MLB, NFL, NBA, MLS, and NHL. But it's performance. Not sport. It's not that easy. |
|
|
|
Post by Danny Busch on Feb 6, 2016 23:33:50 GMT -6
Maybe they should do a few weeks of Raw after mania and then give the main roster an "off season" and let NXT have Raw and smackdown. The main roster could still do some house shows or just train to not have a super long off season. Give them may and june off and then after the 4th of july they ramp it up for SS. The NXT guys would get their time off later or become part of the main roster and get their time off the next year.
|
|
|
|
Post by November KS on Feb 6, 2016 23:37:32 GMT -6
And I actually think that creative could flourish in this scenario. Vince & Co never stick to or probably even attempt long term booking anymore anyways. Not to mention that even when you love a wrestler you might start getting a little tired of them after 9 months. Totally agree. But you're underestimating the human aspect here. Vince & Co could have an epiphany and not be horrible human beings. What if they get someone super hot for nine months? Are you saying they have to take three months off? Again, I'm on your side overall. But now the guy that's at Stone Cold levels is taking an extra day off per week, as opposed to being out for three months. Now the mid-card guy, let's say Ziggler, just sits for three months for preservation. It doesn't work. The WWE absolutely needs to move to a talent schedule similar to those they desperately want to be. MLB, NFL, NBA, MLS, and NHL. But it's performance. Not sport. It's not that easy. I wouldn't be crazy about the numbers involved in this but I suppose it's conceivable somebody could string 18 months together and take 3 months off on the front and back of that. But maybe with hot guy you just have to do the stagger thing and give him a week off here and there during his run. Or just let him go home after Raw, skip Smackdown and the Friday night house show, and have him back for sat/Sun and Raw. Let him do that for a few weeks here and there. There would be exceptions but I just want the general goal to be 90 days off a year. |
|
Optimisn
Moderator
The Voice of Reason
Posts: 33,710
|
Post by Optimisn on Feb 6, 2016 23:42:55 GMT -6
Maybe they should do a few weeks of Raw after mania and then give the main roster an "off season" and let NXT have Raw and smackdown. The main roster could still do some house shows or just train to not have a super long off season. Give them may and june off and then after the 4th of july they ramp it up for SS. The NXT guys would get their time off later or become part of the main roster and get their time off the next year. I'm defending corporate structure and real life, which is painful. Try negotiating a cable contract in 2016 by saying you'll take all of your stars off for a couple months. It would be mayhem. Yes, you could say that's how television actually works. But now you're killing what's made the brand the last twenty plus years. The only way that works is to get the product insanely hot again. Once that happens, you negotiate from a strong position. But nobody will want three months off if you're that hot. They would die if they can't be on TV during a boom. But all of the potential options for creative are real. |
|
Optimisn
Moderator
The Voice of Reason
Posts: 33,710
|
Post by Optimisn on Feb 6, 2016 23:45:47 GMT -6
Totally agree. But you're underestimating the human aspect here. Vince & Co could have an epiphany and not be horrible human beings. What if they get someone super hot for nine months? Are you saying they have to take three months off? Again, I'm on your side overall. But now the guy that's at Stone Cold levels is taking an extra day off per week, as opposed to being out for three months. Now the mid-card guy, let's say Ziggler, just sits for three months for preservation. It doesn't work. The WWE absolutely needs to move to a talent schedule similar to those they desperately want to be. MLB, NFL, NBA, MLS, and NHL. But it's performance. Not sport. It's not that easy. I wouldn't be crazy about the numbers involved in this but I suppose it's conceivable somebody could string 18 months together and take 3 months off on the front and back of that. But maybe with hot guy you just have to do the stagger thing and give him a week off here and there during his run. Or just let him go home after Raw, skip Smackdown and the Friday night house show, and have him back for sat/Sun and Raw. Let him do that for a few weeks here and there. There would be exceptions but I just want the general goal to be 90 days off a year. I could be wrong, but I think they're close to that. I think it's around 250 and a few "unexpected" appearances. Unless you're Cena, which means you do roughly 400 days per year. |
|
|
|
Post by November KS on Feb 6, 2016 23:46:10 GMT -6
Maybe they should do a few weeks of Raw after mania and then give the main roster an "off season" and let NXT have Raw and smackdown. The main roster could still do some house shows or just train to not have a super long off season. Give them may and june off and then after the 4th of july they ramp it up for SS. The NXT guys would get their time off later or become part of the main roster and get their time off the next year. scorejr is in favor of an off season. I just can't comprehend that Vince would ever go for that (let alone what I'm suggesting) |
|
|
|
Post by Danny Busch on Feb 6, 2016 23:46:32 GMT -6
You could in turn say...look at how hot NXT is. You are going to build the talent for the main roster and get all the marks watching in force. Its watered down now. There are only so many "can't miss" raws these days. Think of the 8 shittiest Raw's and the 8 best NXT's. Just trade them out during what has to be the slowest time of the year viewerwise.
|
|
|
|
Post by November KS on Feb 6, 2016 23:54:01 GMT -6
I wouldn't be crazy about the numbers involved in this but I suppose it's conceivable somebody could string 18 months together and take 3 months off on the front and back of that. But maybe with hot guy you just have to do the stagger thing and give him a week off here and there during his run. Or just let him go home after Raw, skip Smackdown and the Friday night house show, and have him back for sat/Sun and Raw. Let him do that for a few weeks here and there. There would be exceptions but I just want the general goal to be 90 days off a year. I could be wrong, but I think they're close to that. I think it's around 250 and a few "unexpected" appearances. Unless you're Cena, which means you do roughly 400 days per year. Perhaps then an even greater goal that I'm trying to attain is to string days and weeks together. Cause look what they do now. Fri - Arrive at location of house show by late morning, early afternoon. Then house show. Sat - house show Sun - house show (or PPV) Mon - Superstars and Raw Tue - Main Even & Smackdown Late Tue Night - Hope to find a late flight and start process to get home. Wed morn - since there probably wasn't a late Tue flight available, you start process to go home. If there was an available flight you're probably connecting to another one Wed afternoon/early evening - One way or another you're now probably home and ehausted. Veg out and sleep. Thursday - Only real off day but you're catching up on laundry, bills, mail, friends, family, pets, and getting ready for...... Friday - when you leave to catch a flight and it all starts again. |
|
Optimisn
Moderator
The Voice of Reason
Posts: 33,710
|
Post by Optimisn on Feb 6, 2016 23:56:12 GMT -6
You could in turn say...look at how hot NXT is. You are going to build the talent for the main roster and get all the marks watching in force. Its watered down now. There are only so many "can't miss" raws these days. Think of the 8 shittiest Raw's and the 8 best NXT's. Just trade them out during what has to be the slowest time of the year viewerwise. The problem is you're focused on marks. I'm a mark. I've tried to leave wrestling, and discovered it will never happen. Ultimately, I need to find a way to monetize that love. But like it or not, the reason Raw even has that "shitty" baseline viewership is because of guys like Cena, Hogan, and (gulp) possibly Roman Reigns. |
|
|
|
Post by November KS on Feb 6, 2016 23:58:59 GMT -6
So you have 52 weeks a year. "Technically" and I use that term extremely loosely, a wrestler has 2 twoooooooooooooo off days a week. So you could say they're off at least 104 days a year.
Those just don't seem like much of an off day though.
|
|
|
|
Post by Danny Busch on Feb 7, 2016 0:00:19 GMT -6
I will say that there was no more devastating monday night then when I went to turn on RAW and the god damn dog show was on.
|
|
|
|
Post by November KS on Feb 7, 2016 0:02:04 GMT -6
I will say that there was no more devastating monday night then when I went to turn on RAW and the god damn dog show was on. Best in Show is a GREAT movie. |
|
Optimisn
Moderator
The Voice of Reason
Posts: 33,710
|
Post by Optimisn on Feb 7, 2016 0:03:11 GMT -6
Perhaps then an even greater goal that I'm trying to attain is to string days and weeks together. Cause look what they do now.
Fri - Arrive at location of house show by late morning, early afternoon. Then house show.
Sat - house show
Sun - house show (or PPV)
Mon - Superstars and Raw
Tue - Main Even & Smackdown
Late Tue Night - Hope to find a late flight and start process to get home.
Wed morn - since there probably wasn't a late Tue flight available, you start process to go home. If there was an available flight you're probably connecting to another one
Wed afternoon/early evening - One way or another you're now probably home and ehausted. Veg out and sleep.
Thursday - Only real off day but you're catching up on laundry, bills, mail, friends, family, pets, and getting ready for......
Friday - when you leave to catch a flight and it all starts again.
/\ Now we're getting somewhere.
|
|
Optimisn
Moderator
The Voice of Reason
Posts: 33,710
|
Post by Optimisn on Feb 7, 2016 0:04:05 GMT -6
I will say that there was no more devastating monday night then when I went to turn on RAW and the god damn dog show was on. Best in Show is a GREAT movie. You're an animal. |
|
Optimisn
Moderator
The Voice of Reason
Posts: 33,710
|
Post by Optimisn on Feb 7, 2016 0:06:24 GMT -6
I will say that there was no more devastating monday night then when I went to turn on RAW and the god damn dog show was on. My Aunt reminded me of those days last weekend. I think I still have a VHS tape of the dog show from the college years. I was busy with other things to focus on proper recordings. Haha. |
|
|
|
Post by Danny Busch on Feb 7, 2016 0:19:17 GMT -6
The idea of "going home" makes this hard. I guess its kinda like Nascar where they fly home sunday night....but they also don't have to fly back until thursday and the get PRIVATE JETS and helicopters. They make it as easy as possible on them. However, if vince really makes them pay for their own hotels and transportation then it really makes this suck for them.
|
|
|
|
Post by November KS on Feb 7, 2016 0:19:52 GMT -6
I'm willing to go to 2 months off a year in addition to what I mapped out a few tweets ago.
Let's just use Cena so I can keep saying Cena.
So we already figured out if John Cena works every week of the year, then he ends up with 104 days off. Even though those days are not "quality days off", he still gets technically 104 off a year.
Now you throw in the additional mandated 60 days off and Cena is now up to 164 days off a year. Now you subtract 15 from that because of the overlapping previous 104 days but now you throw in the 60 which leaves 15 overlapping days.
So you arrive at a grand total of 149 days off a year. 89 of which are "shitty days off". Of the remaining 60, I'd like as many strung together as possible.
|
|
|
|
Post by November KS on Feb 7, 2016 0:24:03 GMT -6
The idea of "going home" makes this hard. I guess its kinda like Nascar where they fly home sunday night....but they also don't have to fly back until thursday and the get PRIVATE JETS and helicopters. They make it as easy as possible on them. However, if vince really makes them pay for their own hotels and transportation then it really makes this suck for them. That's why Vince keeps them at an arm's length as independent contractors. He fucks them hard. They pay for everything. Hotels, car rentals, flights, gyms to workout, food and basically all travel expenses. Not to mention they need to get their own health insurance and all that. The only perks they get that I'm aware of is that there's usually a backstage spread on days of shows in the afternoon, and I believe WWE pays for their lodging on the night's before PPV's. |
|
|
|
Post by Danny Busch on Feb 7, 2016 0:26:37 GMT -6
holy shit.... minor league baseball had more perks than that. wow. that is just brutal. I got spread, lodging, travel and meal stipend. The only thing I had to pay for was in season home housing.
|
|
|
|
Post by November KS on Feb 7, 2016 0:31:12 GMT -6
And on top of all that is the hundreds of miles they travel after shows to get to the next town.
|
|
Optimisn
Moderator
The Voice of Reason
Posts: 33,710
|
Post by Optimisn on Feb 7, 2016 0:33:49 GMT -6
holy shit.... minor league baseball had more perks than that. wow. that is just brutal. I got spread, lodging, travel and meal stipend. The only thing I had to pay for was in season home housing. Many Minor League Baseball players are below poverty the line. Main roster WWE talents are at worst a corporate sales manager that takes bumps. We shouldn't get too crazy here. |
|
|
|
Post by Danny Busch on Feb 7, 2016 0:43:16 GMT -6
I know what they make...I am just talking about what is provided for them.
|
|
|
|
Post by Danny Busch on Feb 7, 2016 0:47:43 GMT -6
The independent contractor thing is kind of ridiculous and I can't believe they haven't been able to get past that yet. I am interested about how nascar is run as its the only similar schedule.
|
|
|
|
Post by November KS on Feb 7, 2016 0:49:58 GMT -6
holy shit.... minor league baseball had more perks than that. wow. that is just brutal. I got spread, lodging, travel and meal stipend. The only thing I had to pay for was in season home housing. Many Minor League Baseball players are below poverty the line. Main roster WWE talents are at worst a corporate sales manager that takes bumps. We shouldn't get too crazy here. Yeah the money is one thing though in many cases it's not all that it's cracked up to be once you subtract all of that and taxes. But I'm just really focused on the health and well being. It's a terrible lifestyle for the most part. And even if not for the physical aspect of it my time off suggestion is equally for the mental aspect. The physical aspect stands out at present though. Aside from leading with the questionable Balor comp, as well as the flukey Rollins injury, all the rest of the injuries they're all suffering from all stem from the repetition and grind of things. Cena, Nikki, Bryan, Cesaro, Orton and on and on are all repetition type injuries to the best of my knowledge. And if they don't watch out they'll be adding to that soon as AJ was already working through a bad back as it was. Throw in Kalisto as a little guy with high impact moves who probably has a greater susceptibility than most. They'll probably wear out New Day, Ambrose & Reigns sooner than later too. |
|
Optimisn
Moderator
The Voice of Reason
Posts: 33,710
|
Post by Optimisn on Feb 7, 2016 1:11:13 GMT -6
My best friend said this to me the other day.
Him: The guy that runs my company is a bigger idealist than you.
Me: That sounds fucking exhausting.
Guys, I get it. I agree on many levels. But I've heard we should get rid of house shows. No. Not only is it a real income source, especially overseas, but that's how the guys continue to learn their craft. Injury, and mental health prevention should always be a major focus.
|
|
|
|
Post by November KS on Feb 7, 2016 1:18:03 GMT -6
Personally I don't want to eliminate any shows. I just want to eliminate dates for individuals. I mean you end up eliminating dates once a guy gets hurt anyways so obviously it can be done. But no, I just don't think it's viable whatsoever to give up any shows or to have an off season.
|
|
Optimisn
Moderator
The Voice of Reason
Posts: 33,710
|
Post by Optimisn on Feb 7, 2016 1:28:44 GMT -6
KS made me watch the Stone Cold Pod with Hunter again. The 11:00 mark forward disturbs me a bit. Regarding Cena.
|
|
|
|
Post by Danny Busch on Feb 7, 2016 1:36:09 GMT -6
What could possibly be more disturbing about cena?
|
|
Optimisn
Moderator
The Voice of Reason
Posts: 33,710
|
Post by Optimisn on Feb 7, 2016 1:38:35 GMT -6
Personally I don't want to eliminate any shows. I just want to eliminate dates for individuals. I mean you end up eliminating dates once a guy gets hurt anyways so obviously it can be done. But no, I just don't think it's viable whatsoever to give up any shows or to have an off season. Putting a "job" guy from a local indy up against a Neville in Omaha seems to make sense. At least if it's replicated over the year. Many options. |
|
|
|
Post by randomone on Feb 7, 2016 1:43:17 GMT -6
I agree, don't eliminate shows, just don't run guys into the ground working every damn show during the week. Just lower ticket prices. I looked up the "VIP Experience" for my house show at 1 in the afternoon in March and one front row or second row ticket, ONE TICKET, is about $600. Thats fucking ludicrous. You get a souvenir chair, merchandise, meet and greet with A Superstar (one). For a house show matinee, $600. I looked at closer seats & they were still $75 to $100. Lower the prices & improve your product on TV & get more people to come out. That's more revenue in ticket sales, despite being lower priced, more people would come. Also more merchandise sales, which I assume most of that cash goes to talents? I could be wrong. They say it's great low priced family entertainment, yes, that's true, when about 7 rows of tickets are $17.50. I get they have to make money, but it's not like a Smackdown or RAW where I'd understand the higher prices. My Smackdown ticket last year was $100 for 4th row hard cam. I'd totally pay that again.
You should get 2-3 "upper tier" matches & the rest should be just lower to middle guys. You build them up & get crowds familiar with them on the house show circuit, the talents can work their characters out.
That said, with the amount of guys out, I'm fully expecting a Bray Wyatt vs Kane main event at my house show next month. Thank goodness I'm going for free, because I don't think I'd even want to spend $20 on this.
|
|
